RE: How many weeks do you think powerdown should be?

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RE: How many weeks do you think powerdown should be?

valued-customer in Hive Polls • 12 days ago

I know of no non-economic incentives for commercial spam. Personally directed spam, such as during a dispute between parties may have other incentives, such as deep and abiding butthurt. There may be other mechanisms potential to reduce such non-economically motivated spam, but I submit that is a tiny fraction of spam and in the vast majority of cases commercial spam that draws flags is quickly and completely dissuaded by the ability of flaggers to completely eliminate any rewards from spam ops.

Just as DV's censor spammers, they censor everyone else that is flagged, too. DV's are taxes because they return rewards to the pool that had been directed to creators exactly as taxes are taken out of your paycheck and returned to the government before you receive it. On Hive everyone with stake can tax anyone to the limit of their stake. Such economic disincentives are a very common mechanism that oppressive governments employ to censor speech, such as fines, and seizing bank accounts, and debanking people that is becoming more and more prevalent. When they are tied to specific speech they often work very well to silence that speech, on Hive and elsewhere. Canada seized bank accounts of people that donated to honking truckers in the attempt to end the Freedom Convoy there, and as I recall that did end it.

Trump has promised John Deere, for example, that if they move their factories to Mexico, they will pay a 200% import duty for their products sold in the USA. Since such taxation is a strong disincentive to do business in ways that are so punitively taxed, when many creators on Hive have been taxed 100% of their earnings, they are similarly discouraged from publishing on Hive. I have provided some such punitively taxed users 5% of my author rewards for years in order to provide them some economic return for their posts that couldn't be taxed to nothing. I have just learned about @commentrewarder, which enables authors to share their author rewards with commenters they upvote on their blogs, which also provides non-taxable income, and am trying that out.

12 days ago in Hive Polls by valued-customer

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jacobtothe 12 days ago

Downvotes are not taxes. Taxes take what is yours. Downvotes adjust the potential payout, which is not yours until it actually pays out. This can be abused, but calling it a "tax" does not make sense.

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valued-customer 12 days ago

Just like your rewards, your paycheck isn't yours until you cash it, and it's adjusted through taxation. Just like taxes, DV's return your money to the rewards pool from whence it came, even though people assigned it to you with their upvotes, just like employers assign you pay for your efforts. Taxes and DV's operate identically, only on Hive everyone can tax you.

The only difference is pedantry.

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jacobtothe 11 days ago

You're still trying to make a comparison that doesn't work. Government takes from what you were paid. Votes (up and down) set the post reward. There is no confiscation and no threat of violence for noncompliance.

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valued-customer 11 days ago

You're conjuring up differences where there are none in practice. There's no threat of violence for your paycheck. The government taking your money is no different than Hive DV's. No goons with firearms at the ready stand in the payroll office threatening the paymaster.

It's the exact same effect. It produces the identical result: your money gets taken away. On Hive everybody can tax you to the limit of their stake. That is the effective difference, and that makes Hive much, much worse because that taxation can, and often is, 100% of your earnings.

No vote is the opposite of an upvote. DV's are taxes.

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jacobtothe 11 days ago

"There's no threat of violence for your paycheck."

You have never had any kind of dispute with the IRS. The end result is always "comply or die." There is no comparison to downvoting.

Until HIVE payout, the rewards are not your money. After payout, no one can skim off the top of your locked earnings. I don't deny there are downvote abusers. We also have vote farmers and AI spammers abusing upvotes. The claim that there is a tax effect from a downvote still does not actually make sense.

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valued-customer 11 days ago

You're conflating filing taxes with receiving paychecks. You can have that same confrontation with the IRS over your social media earnings, and this reveals the mixing of apples and oranges in your violence argument. Deductions from your paycheck operate exactly as do DV's.

Regardless of these discussions, the real world has acted to reject all the sophistry and pedantry that tries to obfuscate the catastrophic effects of unrestrained taxation on commercial activity Hive enables social media to become. User retention is worse on Hive than any other surviving social media platform. The market doesn't care about what you say it should do. It responds to market forces, and has rejected DV's as unacceptable parasitism by the rich on the poor. There are literally thousands of farewell posts from the folks that have left. You can read them yourself.

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jacobtothe 10 days ago

No, deductions from a paycheck are not equivalent to downvotes. The payout period is a week where users can vote up, down, or not at all based on their subjective opinion of the content in question based on whatever principles they choose, an then after payout, that final sum belongs to the author and curators. In contrast, if I agree to accept $X/hr in wages, government elbows in and demands $Y/hr under threat of further theft, kidnapping, or murder for noncompliance. You can dislike downvotes, but there is no comparison to taxes no matter how you try to argue it.

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valued-customer 10 days ago

"The payout period is a week where users can vote up, down, or not at all based on their subjective opinion of the content..."

So during the time when your pay for your content is withheld, the taxing authorities on Hive - everyone with stake - can devise such tax as they choose. There is a difference of course, between government and anyone with Hive stake, towards which you now venture, but your paycheck from your employer is also withheld for weeks after you have earned that pay, and the government taxes it according to it's devices before you get it and get to spend the remainder. You can pretend that goons with guns threaten your employer or you to force you to comply with their demands, but no one ever did that. You comply out of convenience. Of course Hive is different, being online, from other commercial activities, so how taxes can be employed on Hive is different than how they are applied to hourly wages or salaries, just as different as upvotes from curators are from hourly wages and salaries. The mechanisms are quite different between creating content on Hive and making things in a factory, but insofar as earning in either way is concerned, DV's are the taxing mechanism that can exist on Hive most comparable to taxes levied on other kinds of production. Taxes are what they most resemble when you compare economic activity on Hive and in other commercial activity. They don't resemble any other economic aspect of commercial activity more than they do taxes.

If you get paid for creating content there is no regular pay period, no pay scale, so these things aren't comparable to earning a salary or hourly wage, but those differences don't alter the fact that DV's are taxes on your earnings that return them to the rewards pool.

Curation is upvoting content, or not upvoting content, rewarding creators for their content or not rewarding creators for their content. DV's are taxing content and censorship because they very effectively suppress speech on Hive. That's their purpose. They are the mechanism on Hive that controls spam, scams, and plagiarism by eliminating rewards for those activities, for content that features those harms to the community, and they control it very effectively by eliminating the economic rewards of spamming, scamming, and plagiarizing people on Hive with punitive taxation. It's just like the threat Trump just made to John Deere, that the US would impose a 200% import duty on their products if they moved their factories to Mexico. Punitive taxation and other economic deprivations (like seizing bank accounts, as Canada did to people donating to honking truckers to end the Freedom Convoy) are widely used by oppressive governments to control people subject to them, just as Hive does to spam, scams, and plagiarism, and censors the speech on the platform by driving DV'd creators off it.

Of course, thousands of people have been flagged off the platform since 2017 by censors that zeroed out their rewards on every post (which continues today), exactly in the way punitive taxation eliminates John Deere importing tractors from Mexico to the US.

You're pedantry is well noted. I don't have to like it, but it's as real as death and DV's, er... taxes.

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lordbutterfly 11 days ago (edited)

You can keep repeating false information as much as you want. It will not make it true.

Post payouts ARE NOT your money. If they were your money you could have taken the money before 7 days run out. You cant because its NOT YOURS.

DVs ARE NOT taxes.

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valued-customer 11 days ago

You can repeat the same about paychecks. Pedantry is pedantry.

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lordbutterfly 11 days ago

No you cant.

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valued-customer 11 days ago

Yes you can. It's not yours until the taxes have been taken out.

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