RE: Proposal: SteemWorld Support

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RE: Proposal: SteemWorld Support

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howo in #steemdao • 5 years ago

Cool feature set, but this definitely doesn't deserve 28k. And not over a period of a year. I would suggest that you break this proposal into sub proposals, each proposal being one of the big features. like "mobile steemworld", "sds", "interactive post editor".

This way people can support what they want to support. I am down for the sds part. I don't care about the steemworld parts. Thus I won't be in favor of your proposal because I know that some of the funding will go to things I don't want/care about.

Also I don't think the sps should be used to fund closed source projects (like steemworld, correct me if I'm wrong).

Tl;dr : the sds is a great use case for the sps, the rest not so much.

5 years ago in #steemdao by howo

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9 votes

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roleerob 5 years ago

Given all of our rich diversity here on our Steem blockchain, I for one respect differences of opinion. "As one man sharpens another" is an old saying which states very succinctly what I want to say here and now.

Your comments here @howo, resulting in the exchange with @disregardfiat, can (and should be, from my perspective) be seen as adding value to this post. You raise some valid questions / concerns and they should be discussed.

But ... How on earth do you justify downvoting @steemchiller's post here? Thereby reducing the value of what he will receive from the support of so many others? How do you explain that?

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7 votes

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howo 5 years ago (edited)

I'm downvoting him because he stacked tons of bidbots and I am against that. Also it's a way of showing my disagreement, but it's mostly about the bidbots, I'm voicing my disagreement in the comments.

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1 vote

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roleerob 5 years ago

Okay, thanks for the prompt reply @howo. This ...

"Also it's a way of showing my disagreement ..."

... is what I was anticipating. Here on a decentralized blockchain we are, of course, free to do whatever seems best to us. But I for one hope and pray this approach is consistently and heavily discouraged. I don't know where you live or what your philosophy in life is, but I consider freedom of expression to be a cornerstone of our liberties.

As for this ...

"... because he stacked tons of bidbots and I am against that.'

... "tons" ... ??? ... Hmmm, okay, frankly I had not noticed. In general, I understand this is one of the fundamental purposes of our new downvoting mechanism. But ... Would you find any agreement that perhaps case by case this should be considered? @steemchiller is likely to be viewed by many as an exception to this uhhh ... "rule" ...

By all means @howo, make your disagreements known. Hopefully, as civilly and respectfully as you can manage (as you have done here ...). I am asking you "publicly," however, to reconsider your 100% downvote.

At a minimum, you could consider "sliding it back down the scale" a bit (or a lot!), but still leave something in place as more of a symbolic, rather than a punitive, statement against the use of bidbots.

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4 votes

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steemchiller 5 years ago

Thank you again! I didn't even use any bid-bots, but it looks like someone just wanted to be kind... Don't even begin to look, if they are boosting their own posts to the top ;)

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roleerob 5 years ago

"I didn't even use any bid-bots, but it looks like someone just wanted to be kind..."

Great point @steemchiller! They didn't even bother to look at wallets, to determine where the funds came from ...

In a future post, you may wish to think of a tactful way to point that out somewhere in the closing of it. Now with HF21/22 behind us, there is a lot more attention being paid to downvoting, so you would perhaps avoid this happening again.

I did make an appeal here, but ... No response ... Well, hopefully it won't impact you too much (although Smooth has a much bigger SP balance voted at 100% ...).

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2 votes

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amico 5 years ago (edited)

Please @michealb, consider removing your downvote, since I suppose it is the result of a trail vote rule!
Thank you!

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2 votes

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amico 5 years ago (edited)

Dear @howo and @fredrikaa,
I just removed my witness vote to @SteemPress because yours downvote.
Let's remove your downvotes and I'll be glad to vote for your witness again.
It may seem like childish spite, but if it can be useful... why not?

A huge hug and a !BEER

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2 votes

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felipejoys 5 years ago

I just removed my vote as well... No chance of getting it back soon, though.

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2 votes

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tonygreene113 5 years ago

!popcorn

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popcornexpress 5 years ago

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giphy 5 years ago

// You can support giphy by using one of your witness votes on untersatz! //

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2 votes

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ervin-lemark 5 years ago (edited)

A good move!

I didn't remove my vote from @steempress since I didn't vote for them in the first place.

Yet, I did remove it from @smooth.witness.

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amico 5 years ago

Well done, mate! 👏 !BEER🍻

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1 vote

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beerlover 5 years ago

^{View or trade BEER at steem-engine.}

Hey @ervin-lemark, here is a bit BEER for you. Enjoy it!

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fredrikaa 5 years ago

Hello @amico. First of all, you should find that I did remove my downvote. I explained the reason below as I had not yet read your comment here, but rather appreciate the good engagement and conversation I see that this post has generated.

But enough of that, I would like to make the case that while you are of course free to vote on witnesses as you like, this not only not helpful but actually quite destructive. Witnesses secure the blockchain, propose and approve updates/forks and hopefully contribute to its further development. You want the most dedicated team of individuals possible to handle this task, and ideally, you would also want your witnesses to be transparent, available, and engaged with the community. We already have a situation now where a big portion of the top witnesses are hardly engaged at all, don't make their views on new forks, the direction of Steem, or its needed devlopment public, or make themselves available to the community for input. If that's what you want, then doing stuff like this is a great idea, as it will only make witnesses more afraid of stating anything in fear that it will be used against them.

I am happy to be voting on witnesses who I strongly disagree with on multiple subjects, and who I've had intense arguments with in the past. Because at the end of the day, I respect that them (like us) have stayed awake 48 hours in a row at times troubleshooting issues like we've had with the recent hardforks and working to implement a solution immediately to bring Steem back up for the community asap. because despite what has sometimes been serious personal differences, it is the effort to make Steem better that counts.

I hope that I am not just hurting myself by participating in open and transparent discussions with the userbase, including when I disagree with something or hold an opposing view. But that people instead see the importance of an honest and open discussion, rather than what has unfortunately been the status quo of many witnesses just asking others for their votes in private chats, and not make their views open and transparent.

So if there is anything regarding the value steemworlds or steemchiller brings to Steem that you believe I have missed, I am all ears to hear it. And only want to see passionate Steemians succeed in what they do.

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amico 5 years ago

Dear @fredrikaa,
I really appreciate your action and your calm reply and you well deserve a bit of !BEER.

I am very tolerant and respectful of different points of view.
However, the action of your partner @howo (and perhaps also of @smooth) is based on the erroneous assumption that steemchiller used bidbot (while apparently he was one of his supporters) and apparently used to point out differences of opinion.
So I consciously used the lever of the witness vote to attract attention.

Unfortunately, I am witnessing a sort of "small fish hunt" which excessively uses votes from bidbots and at the same time I notice that the problem of the exchange of votes between big fishes has not been solved in the slightest. This may make the enthusiasm of the newcomers die, simultaneously with diffusion and remuneration of contents of a single limited circle of people... but we'll see how the situation will evolve.

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1 vote

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beerlover 5 years ago

^{View or trade BEER at steem-engine.}

Hey @fredrikaa, here is a bit BEER for you. Enjoy it!

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disregardfiat 5 years ago

2k a month. (28k / 12 ) * $0.80 SBD.

Let’s ask this question a different way. How much would it cost to train a replacement for @steemchiller when he realizes that server costs and post rewards don’t put food on the table. Is anybody else stepping up to the plate to make an investment of time and money in to this ecosystem? Would you take a full time job for 2k a month? I wouldn’t take a full time job for 2k a week. Let alone pay for a server on a platform you’re hoping explodes in popularity.

As far as breaking proposals up that’s pretty dumb too. It costs $8 just to ask for funding once. Considering your complaining about less than $500 a week I doubt you’d pitch in to pay that listing fee. Do you think servers suddenly cost less to run when steem is more popular or the “feature set” is done?

If there is ever a point you don’t want this proposal to be paid you can simply remove your vote for free... proposals are paid out in hourly increments, not all at once.

Tl;dr Take your funds to a plantation and wait for a civil war.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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2 votes

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therealwolf 5 years ago

I agree. SteemWorld is an amazing tool and I'm glad to see those weekly posts to be rewarded quite a lot recently. But I don't think it's the best move to ask for a year worth of rewards. At this price, over 175k STEEM. I also find it difficult to actually see what this proposal is about. The different topics should have their own proposal with a shorter time period & lower budget. This doesn't mean that the work introduced shouldn't be rewarded, but I guess it should also be thought about making it open-source.

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3 votes

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nuancedthought 5 years ago

Says the man who made a proposal for a secondary tool just for downvotes ... at least steemworld is a complex toolset that people actually use and not just a downvote tool that only what like a few whales use?
Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

But with that said I'd rather see all these tools that steemchiller has integrated into an actual interface for users, have you considered talking to the interfaces @steemchiller?

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