Voting Process:

novacadian 5 years ago

Sucks that we had to pull out the nuclear option in order to establish a concise communication between you Justin and the witness community.

This was not the nuclear option. This was we can't really fork in case we can't cash in our witness payoffs.

Without a solution that would effect every user equally, this is attempted robbery!

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klye 5 years ago

Not sure what to say about it.

We were in danger of being absorbed and having FUD shit all over us from Justin Sun.. At least now he's willing to sit down and communicate with us, rather than leave us all wondering if STEEM has a future.

Said from the very start that this would likely result in a fork.. It did.
This could still go very badly for STEEM, I don't know what the future holds.

Guess we'll see when we get to meet with Justin Sun..

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gduran 5 years ago

What are you talking about? There will just be a meeting, the bigger accounts and witnesses will be satisfied they will get a good deal and Justin will then do whatever he wants. And fuck the rest of the people, just like in real life with politicians. And I am not against Justin Sun, this has never been decentralized, just a small group of people have always held the power so for most of us there will not be much change and anyway we don't really have that much to lose.

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klye 5 years ago

We're just taking the steps necessary to not be absorbed into TRON. He could just give us lip service and then do whatever the fuck he wants.. True.

The DPOS nature of STEEM makes it that only a small number of people have control over running the code that runs the blockchain... It sucks but that is how it is.

We have the entire chain to lose if this goes bad... I don't know about you, but I don't want STEEM to get absorbed by TRON then have to pay to make a post or comment or transfer..

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novacadian 5 years ago (edited)

We could have come up with a multitude of solutions. That 51% of all witnesses must employ a HF for it to become recognised like most PoW chains. Just throwing that out there... yet there would have to be countless changes that could be made to thwart Sun while at the same time thwart other whales. Thwart everyone equally. This is extortion and looks like ETH classic from here.

P.S. Dropped all support of witnesses which installed 22.2 so you understand my withdrawing your vote. My choice affected every witness not just you.

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klye 5 years ago

Only 17 of the top 20 witnesses need to run a new version for the chain to switch over to it.

The back-up witnesses such as myself do not really make much of a difference in what version we run.

This isn't about thwarting whales at all.. This isn't even about thwarting Justin Sun..

This is literally about keeping the STEEM blockchain from being shut down and rolled into the TRON blockchain.. As Justin Sun stated he was going to do initially. So unless you're down with STEEM being shut down, and being moved to TRON, and being charged transaction fees on all operations such as comments, posts, transfers, etc etc.. This is what had to be done. Does it suck? Fucking rights it does, but with Ned selling us out to someone who wanted to dissolve STEEM as we know it, this was basically the only way to ensure that it wouldn't happen.

ETH classic was to reverse a hack due to shitty coding, our fork is to save the blockchain itself.. Not sure how you can compare the two.

I understand where you're coming from with your statements, but you're looking at it from angles that weren't even considered when we rolled this out.

We're trying to protect STEEM, Not fuck people over. Temporarily forking out one persons access to ensure the rest of us still have STEEM to gather around is what we are doing here.. :/

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hone.heke 5 years ago

Hi, are you able to provide a link where he is saying

is literally about keeping the STEEM blockchain from being shut down and rolled into the TRON blockchain.. As Justin Sun stated he was going to do initially

I heard other things and dont mind challenging my own perspective.

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klye 5 years ago

It was in a twitter post that he's since deleted.

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3 votes

novacadian 5 years ago

Only 17 of the top 20 witnesses need to run a new version for the chain to switch over to it.

My off the top of my head suggestion was to imply that 51% of all registered witnesses be required to institute a HF. That way not only the top 20 would have that decision and there would be too many witnesses for a whale to control like in the case of the present system. This was just an off the cuff suggestion of how we could look for a generic solution that would affect all accounts so as to not simply targeting one.

This is literally about keeping the STEEM blockchain from being shut down and rolled into the TRON blockchain.

If that would have been the lesson of DPoS then we should have learned from it and progress towards a REAL Hard Fork. Tell Mr. Sun that. Tell the community that and do it if he used his stake to influence witness voting.

The Computer Scientist in me would suggest the following start up for the new model...

Start a new chain with all current accounts starting at 500 SPs.
Bring back miners that STEEM originally accommodated.
Require 51% of all registered witnesses to agree to new HFs.

The loss of my Dolphin status would be excepted by me for this second kick at the can. But that's not going to happen. Too much vested interests and not a prevalence of scientific curiosity. So the best solution, in my opinion, would have been one that affected all users while hampering/thwarting/hoodwinking Mr. Sun as well.

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enginewitty 5 years ago (edited)

Hear, here. I did the same thing. You will see @drakos on my list, but he was not top 20 at the time this went through and was also, along with @guiltyparties and @neoxian, the most civil towards me during a few discussions.

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netuoso 5 years ago

This option was so far from nuclear. The entire reason for the soft fork was to defend against any possible threat and enable both sides to be able to approach friendly negotiations. I repeat, this was NOT a nuclear option.

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8 votes

klye 5 years ago

If we'd done this when Ned was still running Steemit Inc this would have been viewed as the nuclear option. (In my opinion)

With Justin running Steemit Inc I still consider this the nuclear option, however it has opened up communication channels to it's far less detrimental than it could have been.

What do you consider the option above this, that you would consider the nuclear option? Honestly interested to hear your thoughts on this.

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netuoso 5 years ago

A hardfork that changed the account state and forcefully moved or nullified the stake.

Surely you see there are escalations that can happen from here right? I purposefully worked VERY hard to avoid the nuclear option. That is something that is bothering me about the community acting like this was some rash decision.

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klye 5 years ago

Ah yeah. Ok. that clarifies it for me. Thanks for the reply.

Not downplaying the hours you've put in, in order to make this happen, good work netuoso!

The community feels like they were blind sided, even though I have spent a ton of time telling them that this was on the horizon.. Oh well, I think now that they see that communications are being opened up they are less fearful.

Cheers man!

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cyberblock 5 years ago

Does this soft fork effect any of us in any way?

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klye 5 years ago

Nope. Users will be unaffected by this soft fork. :)

No worries.

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enginewitty 5 years ago (edited)

Hear, here. You may or may not like one of the posts I did about the FUD. I think that was the biggest problem as Twitter is just a shit show anyway designed specifically for the poparazzi to cash in on rumors.

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klye 5 years ago

Is all good man.

yeah, twitter is a fucking shitshow 100%

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joeyarnoldvn 5 years ago

Is being a witness the same as like running a website? I know it is different but when you run a Steem node, does the node have to be online 24/7 or what happens if you lose Internet connection as a witness? I think it should work more like Bit Torrent if it doesn't already.

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klye 5 years ago

Running a STEEM witness node isn't really similar to running a website.

Node must be online 24/7. If you lose internet connection then you will be unable to produce a STEEM block when you a scheduled to.

It is p2p in a sense.

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joeyarnoldvn 5 years ago

Would you compare a Steem witness node to Bitcoin mining, to Bit Torrent seeding, or to other things?

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klye 5 years ago

Yes and no.

Bitcoin mining anyone can do with the right hardware.
When running a STEEM witness you need community votes in order to be allowed to produce blocks. All witnesses do is collect operations such as votes and transfers and put them into a block, every 3 seconds.

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joeyarnoldvn 5 years ago

Voting Process:

I understand that a witness has to go through the voting process to become a witness in the first place. I understand how blockchain works, the process and operation of submitting transactions to the blocks every 3 seconds like you said, and I understand that is not how Bit Torrent, etc, works, specifically, that they are technically different in how they work.

Hybrid

But why not a hybrid approach? I would suggest having the witnesses as the core of Steem. On top of that, I would try to utilize something like IPFS, like seeding, like whatever Bitchute uses, in decentralizing and distributing the data of the Steem blockchain across the world wide web. My objective is simply in trying to decentralize as much of how Steem works as possible.

Option

At the very least, I would try to make it an option and not a requirement. I guess what I'm getting at is concerning platforms or apps or dapps that are built on Steem and not Steem itself. So, I guess I am mostly talking about how Steemit.com, Busy.org, Partiko, and other Steem apps work. I don't know how the different apps work specifically. But I would, assuming that they are not already, find ways to decentralize how the apps work in distributing data across the web to limit centralization. In doing so, people should be paid in helping in that process via things like Bit Torrent seeding and people should be paid, compensated, in Steem, in money, in cryptocurrencies, etc, or whatever, for helping in sharing the load. So, perhaps, they can't or shouldn't be the witnesses. I understand that.

Mining, Seeding

But I would argue and say that more people could seed or mine or help distribute Steem around the Internet via IPFS, P2P, and/or as many different things as possible. Perhaps what I am talking about does not have to be directly connected to Steem itself and be done indirectly or separate from Steem. I've heard that there are cryptocurrency-like Bit Torrent projects out there that does or will attempt at compensating the seeders via cryptocurrencies. I'm talking about Internet 3.0 which means the attempts at decentralizing the Internet. For example, there is one project called Substratum. And there are others as well.

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klye 5 years ago

We had POW mining in the beginning.

All STEEM happens to be is a decentralized database. However the majority of the blocks are created by the top 20 witnesses voted by the community.

I'm not against what you are saying here.. However as it sits I don't see it happening any time soon as would be regarded as taking a step backwards.

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joeyarnoldvn 5 years ago

So, Steem had proof of works (POW) mining. So, now it is proof of brains or what is it right now? What kind of mining would you prefer and how many kinds of mining are there? I believe there are around 5 different kinds. I am still not totally sure which I would prefer. Yeah, I agree that many of these things may not change any time sooner, perhaps. I am simply here to encourage people to talk about making things better, assuming it is even possible to improve the system. But not to say that I am right about what I say. I am only trying to suggest ideas that might help. But I could be wrong concerning the specific details.

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