RE: Value Plan Q4 2024 - Q1 2025 Bridge Proposal and Discussion

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RE: Value Plan Q4 2024 - Q1 2025 Bridge Proposal and Discussion

lordbutterfly in #valueplan • 6 days ago

You dumped a lot of text, went all over the place, which pretty much obfuscated your response to the factual statement I made about certain types of marketing not being able to have measurable results in Hive price action.... here it is...

Are you in comments letting everyone know that at least some things the community is paying for don't even have measurable results?

I am in the comments letting people know that. That is something that people should have known already and those that approved the car should have been aware of it.

"Wow -- they are on top of who is doing the darn thing in the crypto world -- let's put another $1M there in 2025!"

And this is just speculation again. Again dodging the made points.

VP mostly deals with incoming requests for funding. Some of us in VP have our ideas on what should be tried but there is no overarching strategy or active effort to develop it. People are stretched as it is, nobody wants to work for free, you cant find people to even write a single post for Hive, do anything really, without pay, so its basically on a handful of people that were stupid enough to not get paid carry all of the burden.

If there is no valid funding requests from US or India, or Ukraine, whatever, then there will not be VP expenditure there.

6 days ago in #valueplan by lordbutterfly

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deeanndmathews 6 days ago

I'll keep it short then and make it easy: do things that are measurable, leave the rest alone, and give solid accounting for what you do. Your workload would be less, and you would have fewer people asking ten thousand questions and bringing in their own data to show why what you are doing doesn't seem to be working. VP is running $1M per year on a project whose market cap is under $120 million. That needs to be justified. If I went to the store for you for $10, you are getting a receipt and change and an explanation if something is out of the expected norm. VP needs to come up to that basic standard.

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lordbutterfly 6 days ago

do things that are measurable, leave the rest alone, and give solid accounting for what you do.

I do only do things that are measurable. Car was something that was a thing before I was added into VP and it was clear from first moment what kind of marketing that is.
Vibes is easily measurable. Conference im doing as well. Hivefest is clear as well. The social media managers are all straight forward with measurable results.

asking ten thousand questions

People have complaints which are valid and then you have attacks, trolling and threatening. Those that ask specific questions will have them answered, those that start accusing me personally of illegal activity will get a clear treatment.

If I went to the store for you for $10, you are getting a receipt and change and an explanation if something is out of the expected norm.

Ask specific explanations and ill give them. If you go broad and cover a 100 things I cannot give you those answers. VP isnt a structured system. Its simply responding to request for funding based on judgement of project managers.
I did not approve the car so you would have to ask who did and what the thought process was.

Me you can ask about Hivefest, Vibes, Social managers and the upcoming conference and how VSC is tied to it.
I did not found VP, I joined because I was asked to volunteer and help with things. I refused a few times precisely because I didnt want to deal with stuff like this here.
If you want a structured system with a somewhat corporate structure then ask for VP managers to get paid.

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deeanndmathews 6 days ago

If you want a structured system with a somewhat corporate structure then ask for VP managers to get paid.

No, @lordbutterfly ... as someone who works in the real world with a volunteer team to manage community assets worth more than Hive's present market cap, just NO. Not being paid cannot be the reason. It is terrifying to consider it would even be offered as a justification for not having structure in place. I can understand being overworked and not paid and frustrated ... been there, done that too ... but a lack of structure is what gets us to these situations as you have to deal with now. Since you are not the founder of VP, I can accept that the lack of structure is not your doing -- but since you are a noted leader, it is your responsibility now with your colleagues. You have some of Hive's brightest minds -- @blocktrades used to run the ONLY exchange I trusted my Steem and my Hive to, and frankly, nothing has been quite as good since -- so, I know you have team members who understand what is required. Blocktrades still keeps us up on his activities regularly, and it is something that is greatly appreciated.

I personally think that Vibes and HiveFest are wonderful programs ... in the case of Vibes I can see the growth and it is fairly easy to track it. I would love to see that presented in proposals so we can all see the growth. Hivefest: same thing. Social managers I would love to know more about, and again: I would love to see those measureables. I am telling you straight up, as someone who approves a run rate bigger than VP's ask every month: when proposals begin to include the measureables and the good results up front so people can see, a lot of the stress you have will go away. I'm dropping you a big hint on better structure: put the measureables up front, and leave the rest alone for a while. Not everyone is going to like all of the measurables -- somehow, community wells seem to be highly controversial with some -- but that's something anyone can confirm is working and can be leveraged for greater exposure to Hive -- and in fact, the documentary is a form of publicity and leverage. KRK -- again, measurable, clearly getting things done.

Again, I don't have a problem with VP getting $105K more and $1M more next year, as long as we get to see the money being spent well, with good measurables. There are a lot of things VP does that are magnificent, and I would love to see them continue. A lot of us just need to see better accounting and transparency, and some sense of what VP is doing aligning with best global data on crypto adoption. I'm sure that there are "quality people" from India, Nigeria, and Indonesia who would be delighted to work with VP once the transparency issues are cleared up -- in fact I saw @sanjeevm on the VP strategy post, and @guiltyparties has already confirmed India as an area of work. I do not know as many members of the Nigerian community on Hive as I do the Ghanaian because @collinz and @mcsamm stand out, but I do know one of Indonesia's outstanding representatives: @macchiata. Believe it or not, using the data on where to promote will make your life easier -- that's two billion people to work with who want what Hive offers. I of course am from country No. 4, where there are 50M-100M crypto users out of a population of 330M, so many that they may have tipped the election toward Mr. Trump. Paying attention to those top 4 -- or, anywhere feasible in the top 20 -- will give VP success after success after success, and accounting for steady success is a lot more fun.

But, there is no way around the questions about where the funds are going and have gone until the questions are answered. Not everyone will be satisfied, but a step toward what was done in 2023 with both a half-year and closing year report would be a good start. Another good start: put out good answers for at least Q4 this year before you ask for more Q1 money. And, if there are things that have gone wrong, that transparency will give VP room to say, if necessary, "There was an irregularity here. We are putting it out with our explanation BEFORE YOU HAVE TO ASK, and here is how we are resolving it and working to avoid similar situations in future."

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lordbutterfly 6 days ago (edited)

it is your responsibility now with your colleagues.

Nope. VP deals with incoming requests for funding from the community. Developing any broader strategy is not in the description nor is in the description who has what title and what responsibility beyond key holders.
It can happen but its not in "job" description.

Im responsible for the stuff I receive funding for and I deliver on that.
You do not get to tell anyone what responsibility they should have. You do not get to add more work on top of whats being done. And im not trying to be mean here.

Not being paid cannot be the reason.

It is absolutely the reason. All the basics are very much covered but beyond that, what you are definitely hinting at, will not be done. We each jump in with what we have time for. There is no work allocation based on specific regions or specific job descriptions or specific marketing type. Its very much loose in that department. Sure, 1 person will do more of some stuff. For example Crim with exchanges but thats simply because how it is.

a lot of the stress you have will go away

I have no stress at all. Theres a certain type of people I have a problem with but thats a recurring problem. lol

The rest of it ....

Again youre piling on expectations. The community comes to VP with funding requests. If there is US based funding requests, fine. If there is Indian (like the hackathon, fine as well.
Do not ask us to develop a marketing strategy for Hive.
I have my own personal strategy and approach that im working on that differs from current strategies but is based on my own initiative for my side of projects. VP cannot be asked to do anything more than respond to funding requests from the community. It may deliver more, but it cannot be asked more.

But, there is no way around the questions about where the funds are going and have gone until the questions are answered.

Again. What funding? If wer discussing things here then be specific as to what funding you want to know about. I can deliver an answer for my side. I do not deal with VZ stuff or India, etc.

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deeanndmathews 6 days ago

So, let me see if I understand ... VP is actually leaderless, and you are each doing what you are best at, and none of you takes responsibility for what the others do? I've seen models like this. Occupy Wall Street worked like this for a while. Of course, no idea what their run rate was because they didn't have a DHF ... but also, they didn't last all that long, either ... that's a tough model to sustain. Black Lives Matter Global Foundation tried that model as well ... about $90 million worth ... and its prominent people are likely to be hounded for the rest of their lives while the foundation has now become a byword and epithet for the right wing to shut down anything good that could have been done in that whole movement.

Now, as a practical matter ... when you all put together a proposal, can you each write down what you know about so the unified presentation has it all? For example, Vibes: what was spent where, and results achieved. Whoever does the car: maybe they can share their data. If each of you does that, the questions are answered, because it should sum to whatever VP asked for, and each of you knows how well things worked that you did. I do agree with you that Vibes, for example, is quite measureable -- can you each write that down for the proposals? Again, in 2023, there's a half-year and quantitative review ... I know VP can, actually, so I'm not seeing why it is such a problem. You could even just use headers in each proposal, and everyone puts their stuff under their portion. That way, people could understand how it works and who is responsible for what, and make better informed decisions.

One more practical matter ... I understand human beings hate being told "no," but do understand: VP is being told no every time one more person reads the increasing volume of posts against it and votes the Return Proposal. Human nature being what it is, if the Return Proposal does not have sufficient power to enact the NO, that NO eventually will rise to a pitch with the other unhappiness around Hive and its leadership in the crypto world that the NO will damage the chain's reputation. That will counter pro-adoption measures, profoundly, and I would think all of us want to avoid that.

Again, I'm not talking about VP doing Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP) type of accounting. Can VP get back to half-year and quantitative reviews, though? Can each of you just write down what you are responsible for and explain the structure that you do have so we know to ask you about Vibes and not about the car, and so we ask the person who takes care of the car about the car and not about Hivefest -- do you see what I am getting at?

I have been near the edge of burnout myself as a volunteer ... on a human level I can certainly understand the need to back up from that edge. Just understand, though ... "the work cannot be optimal, but hand us another $105K anyway, and then next year ..." OK. If that's the case, that's the case. I accept that your perspective is your perspective, and I appreciate your sharing so that I can have more reasonable expectations. I have shared what I would need to see to support VP -- see the previous paragraph for the simplest iteration -- as well.

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lordbutterfly 6 days ago (edited)

Just to go into it a bit more as I maybe didnt clarify it best in prior comment.

No single person will do all of the specific type of work, because the work load would be extremely high. So for example, wer all doing outreach for certain things. Crim does outreach for stuff she does. I do outreach for things i do. GP does it. Crim talks to exchanges. Ill be talking to exchanges in regards to a specific project here. GP will talk to some conferences, ill talk to others. Crim will go to some conferences, im going now to one. So its kinda who can grab what.

When I say that the structure you hint at is not possible, its precisely because there is no pay and its not a real job. Its voluntary work thats extremely wide in scope, with an extremely limited number of people doing it, and no one can be asked (required) to do anything that they do not volunteer for. They will try their best to do so if asked, though.

Time available and burnout is a real thing and beyond trying to cover all the needs this chain has, maintaining burnout is a must. So you simply cannot allocate work in a way that would be optimal. That is the structure im talking about. And again because of this, I can only speak for how I see things. I cannot guarantee others share my view.

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