RE: How many weeks do you think powerdown should be?

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RE: How many weeks do you think powerdown should be?

valued-customer in Hive Polls • 3 months ago

You're conjuring up differences where there are none in practice. There's no threat of violence for your paycheck. The government taking your money is no different than Hive DV's. No goons with firearms at the ready stand in the payroll office threatening the paymaster.

It's the exact same effect. It produces the identical result: your money gets taken away. On Hive everybody can tax you to the limit of their stake. That is the effective difference, and that makes Hive much, much worse because that taxation can, and often is, 100% of your earnings.

No vote is the opposite of an upvote. DV's are taxes.

3 months ago in Hive Polls by valued-customer

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jacobtothe 3 months ago

"There's no threat of violence for your paycheck."

You have never had any kind of dispute with the IRS. The end result is always "comply or die." There is no comparison to downvoting.

Until HIVE payout, the rewards are not your money. After payout, no one can skim off the top of your locked earnings. I don't deny there are downvote abusers. We also have vote farmers and AI spammers abusing upvotes. The claim that there is a tax effect from a downvote still does not actually make sense.

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valued-customer 3 months ago

You're conflating filing taxes with receiving paychecks. You can have that same confrontation with the IRS over your social media earnings, and this reveals the mixing of apples and oranges in your violence argument. Deductions from your paycheck operate exactly as do DV's.

Regardless of these discussions, the real world has acted to reject all the sophistry and pedantry that tries to obfuscate the catastrophic effects of unrestrained taxation on commercial activity Hive enables social media to become. User retention is worse on Hive than any other surviving social media platform. The market doesn't care about what you say it should do. It responds to market forces, and has rejected DV's as unacceptable parasitism by the rich on the poor. There are literally thousands of farewell posts from the folks that have left. You can read them yourself.

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jacobtothe 3 months ago

No, deductions from a paycheck are not equivalent to downvotes. The payout period is a week where users can vote up, down, or not at all based on their subjective opinion of the content in question based on whatever principles they choose, an then after payout, that final sum belongs to the author and curators. In contrast, if I agree to accept $X/hr in wages, government elbows in and demands $Y/hr under threat of further theft, kidnapping, or murder for noncompliance. You can dislike downvotes, but there is no comparison to taxes no matter how you try to argue it.

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valued-customer 3 months ago

"The payout period is a week where users can vote up, down, or not at all based on their subjective opinion of the content..."

So during the time when your pay for your content is withheld, the taxing authorities on Hive - everyone with stake - can devise such tax as they choose. There is a difference of course, between government and anyone with Hive stake, towards which you now venture, but your paycheck from your employer is also withheld for weeks after you have earned that pay, and the government taxes it according to it's devices before you get it and get to spend the remainder. You can pretend that goons with guns threaten your employer or you to force you to comply with their demands, but no one ever did that. You comply out of convenience. Of course Hive is different, being online, from other commercial activities, so how taxes can be employed on Hive is different than how they are applied to hourly wages or salaries, just as different as upvotes from curators are from hourly wages and salaries. The mechanisms are quite different between creating content on Hive and making things in a factory, but insofar as earning in either way is concerned, DV's are the taxing mechanism that can exist on Hive most comparable to taxes levied on other kinds of production. Taxes are what they most resemble when you compare economic activity on Hive and in other commercial activity. They don't resemble any other economic aspect of commercial activity more than they do taxes.

If you get paid for creating content there is no regular pay period, no pay scale, so these things aren't comparable to earning a salary or hourly wage, but those differences don't alter the fact that DV's are taxes on your earnings that return them to the rewards pool.

Curation is upvoting content, or not upvoting content, rewarding creators for their content or not rewarding creators for their content. DV's are taxing content and censorship because they very effectively suppress speech on Hive. That's their purpose. They are the mechanism on Hive that controls spam, scams, and plagiarism by eliminating rewards for those activities, for content that features those harms to the community, and they control it very effectively by eliminating the economic rewards of spamming, scamming, and plagiarizing people on Hive with punitive taxation. It's just like the threat Trump just made to John Deere, that the US would impose a 200% import duty on their products if they moved their factories to Mexico. Punitive taxation and other economic deprivations (like seizing bank accounts, as Canada did to people donating to honking truckers to end the Freedom Convoy) are widely used by oppressive governments to control people subject to them, just as Hive does to spam, scams, and plagiarism, and censors the speech on the platform by driving DV'd creators off it.

Of course, thousands of people have been flagged off the platform since 2017 by censors that zeroed out their rewards on every post (which continues today), exactly in the way punitive taxation eliminates John Deere importing tractors from Mexico to the US.

You're pedantry is well noted. I don't have to like it, but it's as real as death and DV's, er... taxes.

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lordbutterfly 3 months ago (edited)

You can keep repeating false information as much as you want. It will not make it true.

Post payouts ARE NOT your money. If they were your money you could have taken the money before 7 days run out. You cant because its NOT YOURS.

DVs ARE NOT taxes.

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valued-customer 3 months ago

You can repeat the same about paychecks. Pedantry is pedantry.

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lordbutterfly 3 months ago

No you cant.

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valued-customer 3 months ago

Yes you can. It's not yours until the taxes have been taken out.

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lordbutterfly 3 months ago

Dude... its not yours. Changing the whole system so it is yours is fine to propose, but as it is now, the post payouts ARE NOT yours.

Now.. heres slope to sit on and slide if DVs are removed.

You remove ability of downvotes to affect payout.
self voting is incentivized to 100% of your voting power. Will happen, has happened in the past. Everybody just votes themselves. It is their stake after all.
Voting system is thus useless and we can simply, without any significant difference remove the author reward pool entirely and attach the 10% curation APR to simply staking Hive. Voting content is gone.

We were close to there years ago when downvotes werent free but existed. This is even worse and would kill the reward pool entirely.

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valued-customer 3 months ago

"...the post payouts ARE NOT yours."

Neither is your paycheck until the gummint has DV'd it.

The rest of your post is what iffing the worst that can be coded. Code is king. None of that crap is potential unless the code enables it. We've seen what unrestricted censorship via unrestrained taxation by anyone for any - or none - reason results in. It eradicates user retention.

There's no reason to even discuss it. We've discovered the best way to destroy user retention, and it's unrestrained taxation.

Now, tell me how that rally car replaces >1m users that have been driven from the platform by unrestrained taxation.

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lordbutterfly 3 months ago (edited)

Neither is your paycheck until the gummint has DV'd it.

Post payouts arent your paycheck. I dont even know where to start to dismiss this nonsense. The decentralized nature of reward distribution? The fact that post payouts are subject to votes and downvotes. That theyre not set in stone or agreed upon in advance in any way whatsoever between anyone that commits an action to affect them. That youre not obligated to provide any agreed upon work. That there is no social, legal or anything that would constitute a contract between parties in any way?
Post payouts have no relevant similarity whatsoever to "paychecks". The only similarity is that $$$ is a factor somewhere in the equation. You might as well compared post payouts to throwing nickels into a wishing well.

The rest of your post is what iffing the worst that can be coded. Code is king. None of that crap is potential unless the code enables it.

And if code is king then you are not entitled to your post payouts. Its not yours until its in your wallet. See. Code is king as you say.

We've seen what unrestricted censorship via unrestrained taxation by anyone for any - or none - reason results in. It eradicates user retention.

Its not taxation. DVs arent even applied across the board or in any structured way or are they targeted or consistent nor are there rules/laws that theyre bound by. literally nothing in common with taxes.... i mean the taxation angle is just silly. Not even if I give you the benefit of colorful exaggeration can you call DVs taxation.

There's no reason to even discuss it. We've discovered the best way to destroy user retention

Downvotes are a non issue. I actually know what the issue is. Your crusade over bullshit is misplaced and a waste of time. Im actually trying to fix the faults while youre ranting over nonsense without any useful input. And you could be providing useful input. Youre not a dumb guy.
The battle is in locating fixable issues and creating pressure on those that are at the root of the problem, that can most easily commit an action to fix the issues.
You spew nonsense akin to conspiracy crap you find on web2 while the problem is in specific individuals with names and faces that just suck. That dont know better and found themselves in a position where their skillset doesnt align fully with the requirements of their position in a decentralized system that has specific needs. And thats common because wer all faulty humans.
There is no faceless cabal conspiring to benefit itself at the expense of the community. If anything is true its that theres an anti-cabal of sorts where most dont even talk to each other as much as they should.

Now, tell me how that rally car replaces >1m users that have been driven from the platform by unrestrained taxation.

This is just a ridiculous statement. Words strung together.
"How does the sparrow replace the helmet shot off by a melon in a hail storm."

None of what you said here has anything to do with each other. You can criticize the rally car. Fine. You can criticize retention. Fine. You can criticize downvotes (still not taxes). But none of that has any relation to each other in any way that you presented it.

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